KAORI KATADA : BASIC INCOME NEEDS TO BE PUSHED BY ORDINARY CITIZENS

Japanese academic Kaori Katada tells us about the social situation in her country, where a growing number of people are struggling to make ends meet, especially women. As she describes the situation in her country, similitudes with France emerge : same bureaucracy, immobilism, criminalization of poverty, deterrence of the people eligible for welfare...
Supporter of the Basic Income in Japan, Kaori Katada warns us against a "right-wing" implementation of it and pleads for a large popular support in order to have a basic income that really improves the life of all citizens.


AC : Ms. Kaori Katada, you are assistant professor at the department of social welfare in Saitama prefectural university. You made your thesis about Basic Income. Why did you choose social policy as a study ?

KK : I used to work with homeless people when I was a student. I was a kind of activist. I think it is because of this social policy system that they are still homeless. People say we have welfare state in Japan, that our life is guaranteed by the government. But we can see 30 000 homeless people in Japan, and 30 000 suicides every year, most of them because of economical reasons. Japan's relative poverty rate is 15%, as reported by the OECD (Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development), which means that 1 citizen out of 7 is in a state of poverty (the threshold being 50% of the median income).
We have to change the social policy system ! Every year almost 100 people starve to death in Japan. In this developed country. Even if they don't starve, they kill themselves when they run out of money. Most of them are denied social assistance by the welfare office. The take-up rate in Europe is between 60% and 70%, but in Japan it is only between 10% and 20%, which is really low.

AC : Maybe one of the reasons why poor japanese people don't take welfare is that there is a reluctance... ?

KK : Yes ! We call it shame. Social assistance is very stigmatized in Japan. Japanese government not only ignores the difficulties of poor people, but also these days they start regarding them as criminals.
We should be proud of using our system because it is our right ! Social rights, citizen's rights. But we have this shame feeling for using the system, especially the older generations.

AC : What about unemployment ?

KK : Unemployment is rising. Currently it's between 5 and 10 %, not as high as in Europe, but much higher than before. One more issue is that even if you get work, most jobs are unstable and low-paid.

AC : This is a shift from japanese work ethic based on life-time employment, right ? You finish your study, you enter a company, and you stay all your life...

KK : Yes, but the younger generation don't have that anymore. For us, it's so difficult to get that kind of tenure job. You need at least 4 million yens (around 40 000 euros) to graduate university. If you go to private university, you need 10 million yens (around 100 000 euros). But you can't find a stable and proper job if you don't graduate university.

AC : Do you think basic income can help solve this economic crisis ?

KK : I think we should introduce basic income as soon as possible, whether there is crisis or not. Even if there is no crisis, we need basic income as a human right. The first and most important purpose of the basic income is not reaction to the crisis, it is the people's well-being.
Some basic income supporters say that we also need work sharing, that division between people who work and people who don't work is not good. People who work should work less, while people who don't should work a little.
If you just introduce basic income, who will carry housework ? I think women will continue. But in order for men and women to share housework, we need work sharing. Only if the men work less hard than before, will the gender division of work disappear.
Also, the productivity is much better than before now, so the work must be less than before. Especially in Japan, where karoushi (overwork to death) is frequent and is a social problem.

AC : For you the fight for basic income is also a fight for woman rights ?

KK : Yes, exactly ! It can liberate women.
The current situation of women in Japan is bad. There is a very strong patriarchy, and the social policy system is completely male dominated : if a woman wants to get the entitlement for social benefits, she has to be someone's mother or someone's wife. She can't get any entitlement as a single woman. But if you have basic income, you don't need to be someone's mother or someone's wife to get this entitlement, you can get it as a citizen. So I think it's good for women’s autonomy.
And sometimes people say that divorce rate is not that high in Japan compared to other countries. But even if a woman gets domestic violence from her husband, she can't divorce, because she depends on him economically. But if you have basic income, you have your own budget, you can divorce.
So thanks to basic income people can be more independent, especially women.

AC : Is that view shared by your colleagues ?

KK : In Japan, the argument on basic income is kind of male dominated. Actually, among members of Basic Income Network Japan, I am the only woman.

AC : What amount would you like for the basic income ?

KK : I'd say at least 150 000 yens (about 1 500 euros), which is the level needed to meet the basic needs under the current situation. But I don't think that basic income is the solution for everything. It is just an income security system.
In my case, I support the basic income in addition to free education, nursing and healthcare systems. We need free social services in addition to basic income. This way we can live on 150 000 yens a month. It is a difficult goal but not impossible. There are already some countries that have free social services.

AC : How would you finance it ?

KK : I think it is a question of political will. For example, in Japan, you don't ask how to finance the japanese military, but you ask how to finance the social security system. Why ?
In this past decade, under LDP (Liberal Democratic Party), we changed dramatically the income tax system in Japan. Before, the highest income tax was more than 70%, but now it is less than 40%. Which means that now we have this income tax system that is friendly for high income people. First, we can change back that system : we can get money from the highest income, at least 70%, and use that money for basic income.
And also, there is this famous economy professor Shuji Ozawa who did a trial accounting for how to finance the basic income. According to his calculations, without changing the burden on citizens, just by changing the social insurance system and the tax system, we can have a basic income of 80 000 yens (about 800 euros) a month per person.

AC : Apart from professor Shuji Ozawa, do japanese economists support basic income or not ?

KK : There is a solid base of basic income supporters. My supervisor also supports basic income. But there are also some economists who oppose basic income. Basic income is unconditional, but they prefer social insurance system : you have to give a contribution to get payment. They prefer that kind of reciprocity rule.

AC : What about politicians ? The two big parties in Japan now are the right-wing LDP (Liberal Democratic Party), and the left-wing DPJ (Democratic Party of Japan), right ?

KK : Yes, except the DPJ is more liberal than left-wing ! We have also a communist party. But they don't have any power. Their base is workers, but working base is shrinking.
All know the idea of basic income, even if only a few in Japan consider it possible. Actually, my supervisor was invited with other professors to talk about the idea of basic income at the meeting of the DPJ, back in the time when Kan was the leader of the party (Naoto Kan, former Prime Minister of Japan, from June 2010 to September 2011). So they were definitely interested in the idea of a basic income.
The DPJ introduced a child allowance system called Kodomo Teate a few years ago. It is close to the basic income : an unconditional benefit for all children without income test. Almost a basic income for children. 26 000 yen (260 euros) every month per child under 15. But it failed. It remained only 2 years.

AC : Why did it fail ?

KK : There are a lot of reasons I think.
One is the change of the leader of DPJ. Kan was relatively left in that party. But now Noda is relatively right. He doesn't like this kind of idea, he also changed some law about disabled people. The system is worse now.
Another reason is the disaster of Fukushima : the economy took a big hit.

AC : Only the DPJ defends these ideas ?

KK : Not only the DPJ. Hashimoto Tooru, the mayor of Oosaka city, is a big supporter of basic income. But he is totally on the neoliberal side. He thinks the poor people are criminals.

AC : So why does he support basic income ?

KK : Because this income can be the tool to cut other social service systems. You have basic income, so you don't need other social services, right ? You don't need the minimum wage.
Hashimoto also sent a lot of policemen to the social welfare offices. So if you go to the office to get the social allowance, the police is waiting for you. They intimidate the claimants. They project an image that the poor are violent. The same thing happens in America.
Hashimoto is that kind of man, and he defends the basic income.

AC : The ordinary people, do they know about basic income ?

KK : Only some activists do, but my opinion is that people who are excluded or marginalized from the labor market will support basic income if the idea is explained. People like disabled people, single mothers... In the last years, I was invited by many organizations to talk about basic income, most of them being women's or disabled peoples' organizations or unstable workers unions.
But people who are not marginalized, like traditional trade union workers, don't support basic income in general. They prefer minimum wage. They hate the idea that you can get basic income without working, because they have this really strong work ethic. In Japan we have this long history with trade union, but their power is now falling.
Still, even though basic income seems radical, it can receive conservative support too. In 2010, I received a prize, "New Scholar Awards of the JSSSW", from the Japanese Society for the Study of Social Welfare, for my article about basic income. It is really surprising because that academic society is really conservative, they don't like the idea of basic income, they don't like feminism. It shows that basic income is becoming more widely supported and debated.

AC : Usually in Japan, how are new ideas introduced ? How does it happen ?

KK : Usually, it doesn't happen in Japan. The politicians don't like new ideas. For example we have this public assistance system called Seikatsuhogo, that hasn't changed for more than 60 years, since it was made after WWII. It has a lot of problems, big issues, but they still don't change it.
Japan is a very big bureaucracy. Sometimes we say bureaucracy controls the politicians, they have more power than the politicians. You can't change the law without civil servant's approval : that is a common saying. Also we don't change political dominant parties either : the LDP has been in power for more than 50 years with one minor interruption. Finally, in 2009, we changed the government to DPJ (after this interview, the LDP came back again in power on December 16th, 2012).

AC : How would you see the basic income applied ?

KK : There are two ways to apply it. One is top-down, implemented by the governor. The other way is bottom-up, grassroot, where the citizens make the government introduce it. I prefer this bottom-up way, because if you let the government introduce it without grassroot movement, they might use this idea as a right-wing tool, like Tooru Hashimoto. We have to prevent that. So what we need is more popular involvement, participation.

AC : You went to the meeting of BIEN (Basic Income Earth Network) in Munich. What did you find out ?

KK : Yes. I found out that actually, in Brazil, they have basic income. But it is only on paper, not financed. There were politicians from Brazil in Munich ; one was the one who introduced that basic income law (Eduardo Suplicy). They also have Bolsa Familia, which is a kind of unconditional benefit for family with children. So I have hope in the future of that country : maybe Brazil can introduce basic income someday.
There are also pilot projects of basic income, some financed by UNICEF and World Bank. They pick little communities, like in Africa or India, and they give money to all people in those communities. This way you can observe the changes in those communities.

AC : So the tone was optimistic ?

KK : Yes, in the conference area. But out of the conference area, not so optimistic. I found the same situation in Germany than in Japan : two schools supporting the basic income, one relatively left-wing, saying that basic income is good for making better conditions for people, and the other relatively right-wing, neoliberal, saying that basic income can be a tool to cut minimum wage. Now it seems that the neoliberal school is stronger than the other, same as in Japan.
I visited some researchers in Berlin, and they had a negative attitude on basic income, because they said in Germany the idea of basic income is kind of stolen by the right wing. Basic income comes in a set with reducing social services and lowering minimum wage. So they prefer avoiding the word "basic income".

AC : What are your plans for the future ?

KK : I would like to help the growth of grassroots movements. But as an academic researcher, my work is writing and publishing articles and books. I already published one book with my friends which is called "Basic Income and Gender". We women all wrote this book altogether. And I have several plans for other books. I will publish the next one in 2013. 

AC : What is your idea of the philosophy behind basic income ?

KK : Maybe under basic income people will not be divided anymore by the state with arbitrary borders between those who work and those who don't work. Basic income can lead to more equality I think. Also the difference with basic income is that you don't need to work to get income to live.
Now, we are kind of forced to work in the labor market, to earn money. But if you don't have to, you can choose what you want to do. For example, unpaid work income, like taking care of the kids and elderly, or housework, and also creative work, like arts, can be promoted thanks to basic income. These activities, which are not valuated in paid labor centric society, can be reevaluated better under basic income schemes. It makes society rich and people happier.
 
AC : A last word for the supporters of basic income around the world ?

KK : Let's do our best together !


The interview took place in Tokyo on September 23rd, 2012. Sound engineer : Karim Doumaz.
Article written based on the interview by Aurélien Cabanillas. All comments in brackets are from the writer.
Article under license Creative Commons CC BY-SA.